John – Why do you think this was ? Lack of adequate/stress testing before release ? Or maybe Bob Rogers’ love of this configuration overrode concerns by the engineers ? Ron From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 2:06 PM
To: Carl Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} 300F Exhaust/ Ram heat I second Carls take completely This idea among fans of 60 ram ( I am one !) that chrysler engineering had rams fully baked in 60 is flat out wrong . They ran so poorly for the average non enthusiast that they were pulled by the score . The issue is not carb heat , —- it was how it was done ! how it was done was a sad joke . I bought two 300’s back in the dsy where the ad said “ complete ram setup in trunk”. That was common. I had a friend at a large boston Chrysler dealer he had 3-4 sets he just took home free . I helped him put a set on a 60 plymouth . We forget - They were not just in 300’s , but performance Dodge D 500 and Plymouth Sonoramic .Maybe many more of them were there than in 300’s I bet . I was there , saw all this , 17 at the time . Loading up snd stalling was the norm as one side choke often came off hi idle ahead of other as heat valves and chokes all had varying operating times . Then heat risers all rust full on in first year or two . Put in D , still on choke even when new with 800 rpm + idle cold day it stalls . party starts , ends up flooded 1) rams were totally gone from 62 model year — A Chrysler corporate decision to end the extreme pain in service depts suffering from 60-61 ram complaints across the country . Enthusiasts put up, regular guy just wants his car to run ok 2) They came back with a total redesign of this area with manual chokes ( both open a same time ) in 63/4! J — and constant bleed of much lower exhaust heat 3)dual heat valves gone on J K. -why? 4) race ram 62 had water heat using 60-61 ram, no heat valves -why? 5) floors of plenum DID melt I had one 6) max wedge had locked together chokes , like J , manual 7) modern cars have no manifold heat at all ( FI) to “help evaporation “ in combustion chamber —yet ice cold the run/ start is perfect . 8 ) carb heat came from poor fuels almost kerosene in 20’s -30’s you needed a “ hot spot” fuel today has the opposite problem 9) state of art intake today is air gap design zero heat no crossover passages — only ambient and thats enough . zero drivability problems if hot oil not hitting air gap underside . later mopar had insulation pad there . 10 )electric retrofit choke stay in sync reasonably well, and with limited but uncontrolled heat (and location of carb right over exhaust) plus ambient heat means it runs evenly side to side , all through warmup. It is an “ air gap” of sorts . cool air equals more O2 more power — and with even heat will thus warm up ok , stays even action side to side if over 30 out if you give it few minutes , below that too, Key is both sides are even , stay even . That sync is not true of 60 -61 stock without endless fussing , service bulletins, etc , maybe ok for a day or two weeks.. yet all have worn out mixture adj screws (!) Must be grandma in That said, I love them , acknowledging real problems is part of fixing them? Well, imho, Don is most certainly NOT a dumb guy, and I for one have learned a lot from him. When Don speaks, one would be wise to listen. And he likes classic rock as well as 300s and Imperials which makes him an ok guy in my world. The heat is used to enable enable some degree of acceptable driveability in the frigid winters of the northland. I don't drive the J in temps below 50 degrees; I have blocked the heat to protect the rams. With the limited use the car gets, it may be uneccessary. Remember that J and ram K used factory equipped manual chokes. So, the isuues encountered with automatic chokes and lack of heat are not encountered on J/Ramk K For F and G with 2903 carbs, the Edelbrock electric choke kits can be used if desired. The PO installed them on my G. They work well and the chokes open at about the same rate. That said, as currently set up they open a bit too fast for cold weather use, but fine for warm weather when I drive the car. ------ Original Message ------ Subject Re: {Chrysler 300} 300F Exhaust Hi Don, Not planning to completely block the heat tubes. Normally I would agree to keep things as-designed, this is one reason I don’t care for electronic ignition or disc brakes on these cars, but I have seen many damaged/ablated/repaired ram intakes, so my guess is they weren’t expected to last as long as we are now trying to have them last. I don’t have an explanation other than maybe the aluminum doesn’t like to get as hot as the intakes can get. Therefore my plan is to use block off plates and drill a hole in each plate, maybe 1/4”, to reduce the heat and exhaust flow going underneath the carbs but not fully stop it. I’d like to hear from you and others whether this makes sense. Chrysler put heat tubes on these cars for a reason. I may be just a dumb guy who is behind the times, but I will stick with what the Chrysler engineers found that works. BTW, Dave Schwandt's F had the J K headers on it. Yes, we sure do; I can try and take some pictures, and also agree with Tony’s suggestion to at least partially block the heat riser pipes. Bob Merritt makes these block off plates, in a couple different styles. Also it may be worth asking Don Cole if there’s still a way to get a set of the heat riser pipes, with a run that are currently being made. In the case of our F, the original F exhaust manifolds have broken mounting ears, so its another case of making do… D&K I believe the Masons have an F with the 300J/K headers in it. I don't know what mods were done to the exhaust system. I'm sure Dave will respond with information when he can. Good day everybody, I have a few questions concerning 300F exhaust. Is there anyone in the club who has successfully installed the larger long "header" manifolds as seen on a J or K on their F? And if so does anyone have pictures of this exhaust setup both from up top and underneath? To my knowledge they are similar if not identical in size to the optional exhaust manifolds that were on the 4 speed equipped F but have some differences I'm not privy to at the moment. My current situation is this: I have a 300F with a passenger exhaust manifold that is unusable and not repairable as it is in several pieces. The downpipes/exhaust crossover looks as though it's been repaired numerous times and isn't in the greatest shape. However, I do have a good set of K manifolds as well as a full set of the smaller heat elbow/pipes that to my knowledge will fit. I do know that I will need some different exhaust flanges to meet up with the rest of my otherwise stock appearing exhaust. My goal isn't modifying for the sake of it, I'm merely trying to work with what I have available to me while staying relatively true to the spirit of the car. Unfortunately being a younger member (31 years old) I dont have all the knowledge or experience I'd like to surrounding these letter cars and classics in general and I would like to avoid messing with things if I dont have to since this was my late grandfather's car and means very much to me. It's quite the learning curve as my first classic car and first car with carburetors so please forgive any ignorance I may have, it isn't willful. --
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/67803571.050a0220.51e41.5567%40mx.google.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/CA%2BjApFO6neW1%3Dmfg8Mcv8W0JCU462eyGKpYr8rrSnkNwLdWYVg%40mail.gmail.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/1579867644.4494271.1736463237826%40mail.yahoo.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/E120CCF3-56D2-478B-876E-DEACFCDBB6B0%40yahoo.com. --
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/emd7c2e873-6675-43dd-8441-ab9f7b16271c%401143106c.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/D596C918-7EA7-4802-8CDD-9480A2DFBF51%40gradyresearch.com.
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/002901db6395%24351e0b80%249f5a2280%24%40comcast.net.
|
